Posts by not a captive

127

LOVE your ENEMIES: where Jesus goes wrong

by Terry in

matthew 5:44 "but i say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,.

luke 6:35 "but love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return.

the most radical teaching attributed to jesus has implications if followed.. an invading hoarde of mongols would not be resisted.. a christian husband would not only allow his wife and daughters to be raped; he would be compelled to forgive the rapist, pray for him and offer.

not a captive

Dear PSacramento,

So far I do get that from my experience and the Bible stories that having an experience with God that you recognize, leaves an unforgetable mark on your life. I have been trying to sort it out--because I can't deny it even though I haven't known just how to relate to God for years.

There are Bible stories of individuals who "drop out"essentially squander a moment they have, but not always forever. And if they recover themselves it is not by suddenly being "good" but by recovering their relation to God. God seemed to tolerate flaws in his friend David but he wasn't close to David when David operated in a way that David himself recognized as abusive. It is interesting to me that God did not like the bloodiness of David's own modus operandi. (I know it is widely held that bloodiness is God's modus operandi as well but God's distaste for having a temple built by a man of blood does make one wonder)

I know that words didn't teach me that God was truly a presence. Nothing I had ever heard prepared me to interact with God. The idea of fearing God was not even a functional part of my situation vis-a-vis God. I really can best relate to the idea of an ignorant old man wandering the wilds of Canaan, the blind man of John 9 or Legion in the graveyard than anything else.

The strange thing is these unique moments are always examples of God befriending individuals who had no highly developed theology. I can see David thinking about God and his ways. And I see God accepting good faith efforts of uninformed people really desiring to know God--but none of them befriended him through religious formulas.

Just thinking--"Love your enemies" is a way that someone does end up contending with God. It isn't a formula, is it? The postings on this thread show that. Also I'm thinking that that it isn't so strange to engage with God through Jesus. He made God available to the poor, the unlettered. I don't have a theology. I just have some good experiences and a lot of bad ones. So far nothing throws me clear of using the scriptures as a point of reference--I just don't reference them in the way that religion does. I'm trying to deprogram not just from the WT but from Orthodoxy.

Maeve

127

LOVE your ENEMIES: where Jesus goes wrong

by Terry in

matthew 5:44 "but i say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,.

luke 6:35 "but love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return.

the most radical teaching attributed to jesus has implications if followed.. an invading hoarde of mongols would not be resisted.. a christian husband would not only allow his wife and daughters to be raped; he would be compelled to forgive the rapist, pray for him and offer.

not a captive

A few posts back I gave the experience of watching a king snake consume a copperhead that was its own size.

I mention this now because it helps me understand why scathing ridicule doesn't change my faith in the love of God. Just as I know what I saw at the bottom of that five gallon bucket (and it is ridiculous a story--two creatures becoming an arm in a sleeve) I had an experience of God's loving presence that was as graphic as that. It was as real as that. It happened ten years ahead of the Witnesses giving me a free home Bible study. In the end, knowing God was a live and gentle God who had shown me he exists brought me out of the WT.

I am a reasonable person. I don't very often tell about the snakes in the bucket. Why would I want anyone to think I was silly?

I am a reasonable person. I don't often tell what happened to me that made me know that a loving God lives.( It certainly was not a welcome story among the Witnesses, it didn't fit their theology of formalism.) I didn't find God in theology or a tent revival. It wasn't the sacraments or the Bible that was the agency. It was as direct as the blind man's healing at John 9. Just as that man knew nothing except that he was once blind and after Jesus smeared mud and spit onto his blindness he could see. That man was an object of ridicule for simply admitting that he once was blind and now he could see.

In spite of encountering God in a wilderness, I sought organized religion after the experience because I like so many others believed that the "church" is in churches. I believed faith was in religion. And consequently, like so many others on this board I am left with a deep and abiding confusion about what to think after the experience of such spiritual abuse at the hands of the church at the hands of the"Anointed".

After so many years I finally had to reclaim that simple, primitive experience of God and look at the incongruities of the evidence of God I have known and what I hear said about God by others who are smarter and better educated than I am.

I am left only with the story of a snake in the bucket. Not two snakes, but one. I have to accept what I saw and, when pressed on the matter, admit that I did see it.

When I wonder why religion is so poisonous, I think in part it must be because it tries to formulate God for others. Jesus never said "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you the only true God.." . No. He said "And eternal life is this: to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."

Obviously God can be buried by the scriptures as much as revealed by them. I am trying to sort that out--now.

I am re-viewing the Bible, trying to rise above my own prejudices and the prejudice of others. Why would I post this? If God could reach me then he could reach anyone. But not through someone else's words, certainly not my own. Maeve

3

Identifying the Faithful Slave as the Christ!

by wannabe in

45"who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?

god has put his wise servant, in charge of all the other servants in his household.

2he was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as moses was faithful in all god's house.

not a captive

"But suppose the servant says to himself,'My master is taking a long time in coming,' and he then begins to beat the menservants and women servants and to eat and drink and get drunk. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers." Luke 12:45,46

The FDS of the WBTS makes the others of the anointed follow them instead of the Lamb. So even accepting there were 144,000 only (I don't) who follow the Lamb as Rev 14:4 says they subvert their brothers and sisters by demanding to be obeyed in their authoritative teaching.

That's taking a beating in my book. Errr, the Bible says so too. Maeve

6

During pregnancy, is the mothers blood in any way passed onto the baby?

by God_Delusion in

i ask this because if it is, then why even bother saying that people should abstain from blood?.

if you could answer this for me, using sources, it would be a great help.. .

carlos.

not a captive

Yes, I accepted Rhogam six times for having incompatible blood type with every one of my seven babies. I had two children after being around the Orgaizations rules. I still took Rhogam after I was baptised because I figured if the baby and I passed blood between us during pregnancy then I was at least justified in accepting blood fractions that could save a baby's life in any subsequent pregnancies.

FYI --I got a tubal after that. Maeve

127

LOVE your ENEMIES: where Jesus goes wrong

by Terry in

matthew 5:44 "but i say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,.

luke 6:35 "but love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return.

the most radical teaching attributed to jesus has implications if followed.. an invading hoarde of mongols would not be resisted.. a christian husband would not only allow his wife and daughters to be raped; he would be compelled to forgive the rapist, pray for him and offer.

not a captive

I want them to be better than I am or at least as good.

Terry,

I think the same but my kids (I have seven, too!) have not always listened to me when I have tried to teach them. Not that I am a perfect teacher. But I used to tell them that humans don't just slither away like lizard babies after they hatch. They have to be raised. It takes a long time to raise a human. If they don't listen sometime things go really really wrong.

I think God does want us to be his friend. That sounds childish, I know. But after leaving (and still making tracks away from) the wretched Organization I feel more impowered and healthier. I feel certain that God wants us to feel this way.

Maeve

22

Hi all...I think it's time to introduce myself

by Desilusionnee in

jw
friends

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not a captive

So good to hear you acting as a conscious Christian. Romans 12:1,2 tells us to be holy and conscious living sacrifice. This is not how we live before God in the Organization. We had to follow other men--not even our own conscience! Maeve

35

I continue to find it incredible....

by AK - Jeff in

that christians throw the old 'where did the matter come from if there was a big bang'?, while having no problem with thinking that god was always there!.

so the dust in the room had to have a 'maker'?

but the super-computer brain sky-daddy is just there and always has been?.

not a captive

I wish my science teacher had been Mindmelda.

25

Close Encounters of the JW Kind...

by Jim_TX in

jw
friends

this morning (like many other mornings) i went to the local 'stop-n-shop' to get my wife a pint - of milk.

she likes to drink a bit of milk during the day.. anyway, on my way back to the vehicle - as i got in and was reaching for the key to start it up... an elderly lady (well... probably about my age - sheesh!

) with grey hair, approached my car with a handfull of magazines - and said something along the lines of.... 'pardon me sir,...'.

not a captive

Dear Texas Jim,

Your answer may be more effective than you know. As others mention, Witnesses do not discuss any valid issues raised by a non-Witness. Your reaction and words may cause some Witnesses who struggle with their religion to simply think--"I can understand why he feels that way!"

I used to run into radical shouters and door slammers in field service. Even family and neighbors who said bitter things about me and to me. But I have to say there was one experience I had as I was walking to a grocery store that gave me pause to think "Why does that man so hate us Witnesses?" It really did affect me.

I spoke cheerfully to a man doing yard work.He looked like a good ol' boy beer drinking kind of a guy in his 40's. He paused for a friendly response. I transitioned into a "discussion" and ID'd myself as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I'm telling you this man was more than just angry. Hewas more than furious. This guy morphed into a blazing hulk and threw his arm straight away from his body pointing his finger away and roared "GO!" and again"GO!

This guy didn't want my "Good News anywhere around him. Now, I'll never know what complaint he had against JWs, but he sure made me wonder.

Thanks for your story. I hope that woman wonders too. Maeve

31

Help! Hold Me Back From Voicing My Opinions And Getting Shunned!

by nextdoorgirl in

i am new to this board after lurking for awhile (thanks so much for creating this place simon, and for everyone's shared thoughts!).

i am going crazy because i have recently allowed myself to begin thinking (and it is so fun!

) and i am an outspoken person, and it is very hard for me to keep my opinions and discoveries about this place under my hat!

not a captive

You do need to think before you talk. To "look before you leap".

This is the only place where JW tissues are thoroughly tried by others. Not saying that quiet meditating can't get you where you need to go--but this board will rake an idea out fast.

Talk here to get thoughts well settled. You will find yourself outside the Organization once you say something. So know what and why it is worth it to you.

It is great to think. We'll look for more thoughts from you in the days coming.

Maeve

127

LOVE your ENEMIES: where Jesus goes wrong

by Terry in

matthew 5:44 "but i say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,.

luke 6:35 "but love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return.

the most radical teaching attributed to jesus has implications if followed.. an invading hoarde of mongols would not be resisted.. a christian husband would not only allow his wife and daughters to be raped; he would be compelled to forgive the rapist, pray for him and offer.

not a captive

If we ALL as a society learn to do good to our RACE, ALL THE LIVING THINGS, AND THE WORLD then we start creating a loving environment. A respectful environment. A society were the enemy is selfishness and not the individuals. There are some countries where Jails are not locked. Because the individuals understood their wrong and accept the punishment. They are ENEMIES of society we could love them but not their actions. In such countries crime is less and punishment is minor compared to selfish countries. Any harm done to any individual is a harm done to all of us a society event to the person committing the crime.

Dear cyber,

You mention "selfish countries", increasingly these countries dominate the world. They infect the gentle societies of the earth--they infect and kill them.

Let's say individuals from a selfish country invade a society of a gentle people. The gentle people may come to the radical conclusion that they must defend themselves. But how? A plan for self defense usually involves mortal combat. A Just War.

If I, as one of the gentle people, help defeat the invaders through violence then I myself am defeated. I cannot go back to my previous state of mind. When I, of my own volition, participate in actions I hate I have let myself be converted. I have surrendered already. I have accepted the enemy's terms.

Cyber, a gentle person has no hope. The world is increasingly dominated by violence to man, beast and planet.

But I do hope in this: Lacking documents of Jesus, I still have to deal with a statement attributed to him that is the substance of everything the gospels say about him and runs contrary to everything the world teaches." Just as I have loved you so you are to love one another. By this all will know you are my disciples, if you have this love among yourselves." and "Love your enemies"

This is the only way I have seen gentle people prevail against evil. Do not go to the dark side or not even our children can live in kindness afterward.

I believe that God did send Jesus to save us from ourselves. I have less and less theology. I know that I have experienced God through the "crude" agency of the Bible. Whether crude or not, it was effective in changing my life for the better. It seems to have gentled some lives around me, too.

Maeve